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Thread: So I just heard TD Jakes tell a couple to get divorced...

  1. #51
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Never mind the details pertaining to loss of salvation. The point is that someone's entry into the new covenant can be rendered void and someone's entry into a marriage covenant can be rendered void. It's not an eternal per-default like our existence as human spirits is once we have been conceived.
    To be frank Colonel...I have no idea what you are saying at this point....

    For me it's simple...an unbeliever is someone not saved, or has lost their salvation so when Paul said if the unbeliever departs, let them..

    Jesus said that in the beginning 'it' was not so...(divorce) God made them ONE and let no man divide it. So clearly God intended it to be for the lifespan of our humanity..

    In the video Mr Jakes made it..UNLESS your married for the wrong reasons...

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    To be frank Colonel...I have no idea what you are saying at this point....

    For me it's simple...an unbeliever is someone not saved, or has lost their salvation so when Paul said if the unbeliever departs, let them..

    Jesus said that in the beginning 'it' was not so...(divorce) God made them ONE and let no man divide it. So clearly God intended it to be for the lifespan of our humanity..

    In the video Mr Jakes made it..UNLESS your married for the wrong reasons...
    Jesus calls us to enter the new covenant and intends it to last forever but we can depart from the covenant even so by turning to unbelief.

    Human beings can enter a marriage covenant and God intends it to last for the duration of their lifetimes but they can depart from that covenant and the Bible specifically defines adultery and being unevenly yoked with an unbeliever who wishes out, as legitimate reasons to depart.

    If you don't get that comparison then don't.

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  5. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    To be frank Colonel...I have no idea what you are saying at this point....

    For me it's simple...an unbeliever is someone not saved, or has lost their salvation so when Paul said if the unbeliever departs, let them..

    Jesus said that in the beginning 'it' was not so...(divorce) God made them ONE and let no man divide it. So clearly God intended it to be for the lifespan of our humanity..

    In the video Mr Jakes made it..UNLESS your married for the wrong reasons...
    Methinks you should listen to the video again ? Listen to the intro part like the first 5 minutes where he specifically gives the context of the program

    Around the 4th minute part he "says what do you do when you say I do and they say I dont"

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    I'd be careful with defining every kind of a divorce as an inferior arrangement compared to sticking with the marriage. If that is the case, then according to the same logic being married at all is inferior to remaining single like Paul did, per 1 Cor 7. I notice that it is mostly people here who have been married the last 40-50 years since they were about 19 who are the most adamant about these things.

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  9. #55
    BAP, I love you, respect you, like your posts most of the time, etc, etc, etc, but sometimes it amazes me the stuff you back up/support/justify, etc, in defending a preacher just because you like them.

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  11. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    BAP, I love you, respect you, like your posts most of the time, etc, etc, etc, but sometimes it amazes me the stuff you back up/support/justify, etc, in defending a preacher just because you like them.
    Actually I am not particular a big fan of TD Jakes at least not since his love affair with Obama began . :) Buts since people only understand from their [place of perception I will explain .

    I don't really defend preachers I am just not a fan of the culture of stone throwing often without the facts that seems to have taking root on this forum as people often take positions that demand others should do the work of ministry according to the script THEY HAVE and any deviation from their script is heresy. Even though their own script really doesn't seem to be doing much from them at least nothing that will make the gentiles stand in awe

    TD Jakes has plenty of material on marriage and I mean plenty and is a very emphatic on the sanctity of marriage (YouTube It) perhaps thats why I am not so quick to bash him here as Quest is. I feel basically any message should be viewed within that context. Perhaps had you highlighted those messages other than the one you disagree with we would be singing a different song but apparently negativity supposedly sells even on christian forums i guess

    Ultimately i think we all have different views on what constitutes Christian Ministry . I understand that some here may be concerned that Bishop Jakes is becoming a little too secular hence worldly in his bid to reach the world and I will confess that I have often wondered myself but in the same vein I am often reminded that Joseph looked very much like an Egyptian to his brothers so much so they didn't even recognize him but yet he was able to get Pharaoh interested in meeting his father while the brothers weren't . Perhaps this is what Jesus meant when he said go into the Highways and Bi-ways . Of course I do understand that even while looking like an Egyptian there were lines that weren't crossed. Likewise with Esther whom the gentile king didnt even realize was a Hebrew

    I am also reminded that Jesus didn't always preach a come-to-Jesus or Come to Jehovah message. Some of his messages were pretty much generic "do-Good" messages that's it. As Lance Wallnau says you can start discipling people even before you get them saved and without them even realizing that they are being discipled ultimately unto Jesus Christ so perhaps thats why I am not so quick to ring the alarm as some here are

    All in all I have no idea why Bishop Jakes didn't deliver an emphatic "marriage is sacred" message here to Quest's liking on this particular show .My Guess is that after many years and thousands of counseling sessions he has realized (As most counselors have) that people really don't stay married unless both parties really want to and them getting the help and wholeness they needed as singles at this juncture was more paramount rather than forcing them to stay in a harried , unhealthy and ultimately fruitless marriage .

    Yes marriage is sacred as Quest posits but so is SINGLENESS. It is equally sacred. and marriage ultimate is about two WHOLE single people coming together to form a stronger bond than it is about Two Broken people trying to derive from each other only what God can give

    That's my guess

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Jesus calls us to enter the new covenant and intends it to last forever but we can depart from the covenant even so by turning to unbelief.

    Human beings can enter a marriage covenant and God intends it to last for the duration of their lifetimes but they can depart from that covenant and the Bible specifically defines adultery and being unevenly yoked with an unbeliever who wishes out, as legitimate reasons to depart.

    If you don't get that comparison then don't.
    I do get that....I have actually agreed with that fact from the beginning...and stated as much at LEAST once, maybe more..not sure why you think we are disagreeing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    Methinks you should listen to the video again ? Listen to the intro part like the first 5 minutes where he specifically gives the context of the program

    Around the 4th minute part he "says what do you do when you say I do and they say I dont"
    Where he began is really irrelevant..where he ended is very relevant..

    Again a PASTOR should counsel based on scripture, not phycology...

    Several things he said gave me hope that he would end well, end Biblically and with sound truth of the character of God...I was shocked when he made the shift from what you quoted to essentially saying he agreed they should divorce.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    I'd be careful with defining every kind of a divorce as an inferior arrangement compared to sticking with the marriage. If that is the case, then according to the same logic being married at all is inferior to remaining single like Paul did, per 1 Cor 7. I notice that it is mostly people here who have been married the last 40-50 years since they were about 19 who are the most adamant about these things.
    Scripture is very streamlined on this topic. I believe we should agree with IT. As for comparing being single to being married that, to me, is a different topic all together as neither of them are an issue with God but He clearly takes issue with divorce.

    Divorce is an inferior arrangement compared to submitting and surrendering ones self totally to the Lord to love the spouse as Christ loved the church and gave Himself or it..why? Because in the latter God is able to work miracles with people's hearts and keep families in tact and that is HIS desire. Based on scripture and the power of our ALMIGHTY God, I don't believe God would EVER respond to a marital situation the way TD Jakes did..Nor should we. We should point them to the cross, to the transforming power, to FAITH and faithfulness..

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    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    Actually I am not particular a big fan of TD Jakes at least not since his love affair with Obama began . :) Buts since people only understand from their [place of perception I will explain .

    I don't really defend preachers I am just not a fan of the culture of stone throwing often without the facts that seems to have taking root on this forum as people often take positions that demand others should do the work of ministry according to the script THEY HAVE and any deviation from their script is heresy. Even though their own script really doesn't seem to be doing much from them at least nothing that will make the gentiles stand in awe

    TD Jakes has plenty of material on marriage and I mean plenty and is a very emphatic on the sanctity of marriage (YouTube It) perhaps thats why I am not so quick to bash him here as Quest is. I feel basically any message should be viewed within that context. Perhaps had you highlighted those messages other than the one you disagree with we would be singing a different song but apparently negativity supposedly sells even on christian forums i guess

    Ultimately i think we all have different views on what constitutes Christian Ministry . I understand that some here may be concerned that Bishop Jakes is becoming a little too secular hence worldly in his bid to reach the world and I will confess that I have often wondered myself but in the same vein I am often reminded that Joseph looked very much like an Egyptian to his brothers so much so they didn't even recognize him but yet he was able to get Pharaoh interested in meeting his father while the brothers weren't . Perhaps this is what Jesus meant when he said go into the Highways and Bi-ways . Of course I do understand that even while looking like an Egyptian there were lines that weren't crossed. Likewise with Esther whom the gentile king didnt even realize was a Hebrew

    I am also reminded that Jesus didn't always preach a come-to-Jesus or Come to Jehovah message. Some of his messages were pretty much generic "do-Good" messages that's it. As Lance Wallnau says you can start discipling people even before you get them saved and without them even realizing that they are being discipled ultimately unto Jesus Christ so perhaps thats why I am not so quick to ring the alarm as some here are

    All in all I have no idea why Bishop Jakes didn't deliver an emphatic "marriage is sacred" message here to Quest's liking on this particular show .My Guess is that after many years and thousands of counseling sessions he has realized (As most counselors have) that people really don't stay married unless both parties really want to and them getting the help and wholeness they needed as singles at this juncture was more paramount rather than forcing them to stay in a harried , unhealthy and ultimately fruitless marriage . Yes marriage is sacred as Quest posits but so is SINGLENESS. It is equally sacred. and marriage ultimate is about two WHOLE single people coming together to form a stronger bond than it is about Two Broken people trying to derive from each other only what God can give

    That's my guess
    Bap, compromising the truth of scripture does not win the world...Paul said to the Jew he was a Jew and to the Gentile he was a Gentile that he might win them..does that mean Paul compromised the truth? No..it meant when he was with them he taught them in a way they could understand. And did not deliberately offend their traditions.

    TD had a perfect opportunity to share the love of God and the power of God to transform to two people and rather pointed them totally away from the truth...
    It's the truth that sets us apart, that makes us peculiar to the world...If he cannot remain true to truth and be on.
    Bap said, "All in all I have no idea why Bishop Jakes didn't deliver an emphatic "marriage is sacred" message here to Quest's liking
    To MY liking? Bap...my liking is irrelevant...He picked the side of human reasoning and philosophy rather than what GOD likes..that is the problem here..


    You are right..he has been becoming more and more secular and this program reveals just how far down that road he has traveled it would seem.
    That's what compromise does...truth gets harder and harder to sustain with every one...until eventually a different gospel has emerged..

    I pray he is convicted and repents and turns back..

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