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Thread: So I just heard TD Jakes tell a couple to get divorced...

  1. #381
    Resident Chocolate Monster Lista's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    We also have cases where the spouse commits a serious crime, whether a court of law is able to sentence them for that crime or it is not. The spouse might end up on death row and be unrepentant, or should have been on death row. Or serving an actual life sentence. What now ? Marriage counselling ?

    The spouse might murder the children for instance and get a 20 year sentence. What now ? Wait until the spouse gets out of prison ? Then marriage counselling ? Some scenarios might look pretty much like Cardinal .
    Are you kidding? Or am I misreading what you're saying? You're saying they should get divorced because one will be in prison?

    What about those whose spouses have Alzheimer's....should they divorce too? God never promised us happiness....joy, yes, happiness....No.

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  3. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lista View Post
    Are you kidding? Or am I misreading what you're saying? You're saying they should get divorced because one will be in prison?

    What about those whose spouses have Alzheimer's....should they divorce too? God never promised us happiness....joy, yes, happiness....No.
    Don't split up my post in mid sentence and then attack part of it. The situation was someone who had murdered the children and was getting out of prison again later, sometimes in only a few years. Or even never goes to prison but the people involved know beyond a doubt that that is what happened even if the court of law has dismissed it. Divorcing the death row inmate is a bit different because that one will never get out of prison again unless acquitted at a later time.

    Alzheimer's ? My thought as I type is that if that person doesn't recognize his or her spouse at all then there isn't much point in calling it a marriage.

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  5. #383
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    It would be much more difficult to endure Michelle's former marriage and while doing that, to teach what Quest does and reject divorce under all circumstances except adultery. It is much easier to do that from a position of having gotten out of that type of marriage and then being equally adamant about not ever going back. And then teach people in Michelle's previous situation to do as one deems that one should have (but never has to do), to stick with that marriage until "death do us part". We may compare this to the satis of India :

    Sativrata

    Someone who has vowed to burn herself to death once her husband dies. While she is still alive, she is thought to be endowed with supernatural powers :

    "The sati would gain the powers of prophecy and clairvoyance, as well as the ability to bless women with sons, who had not borne sons before. The gifts from a sati were venerated as valuable relics, and in her journey to the pyre, people would seek to touch her garments to benefit from her powers"

    Satimata

    This is someone who has committed sati and thereby completed her vow that made her a Sativrata while her husband was still alive. She is now a goddess but no longer a semi-goddess in human form, more like a spirit returning to influence or bless her family.

    There are and have been very many Sativratas in India, women who calculated that they would live most of their lives as a superwoman of Hinduism, a semi-god like Hercules. Some of them did intend to actually commit sati and become satimatas, real sati goddesses but very few would actually do so without being forced to, which has been more common.

    To become a believable satimata and not just one per definition they would have to keep their goddess attitude to the moment of unconsciousness or death, while the crowd watched. I'm talking about hundreds or thousands of years ago. Some did manage to do this and they were probably so full of the devil that there was hardly room for another devil. What power these "real" satimatas had over their communities after their departure one can only imagine.

    The sativratas are sort of on their way there, taking the first steps, taking out and enjoying their upcoming status as departed satimatas in advance. Still alive and human, but also part goddess. If they can keep up appearances and have people believe that they intend to keep their vow that is. In any other case they will turn into total jokes or at best, mere religious fanatics. Just like people who teach against divorce too adamantly but who don't actually walk the walk and teach that from within a marriage situation that is comparable to what people have to endure who are being taught not to divorce.

    The real "satimatas" of conservative Christianity gone wild are rare but they do exist. Some of them are just full of the devil and are living in symbiosis with their spouse who is beating them and who is equally full of the devil. Some of them are on pulpits teaching others to live the same kind of life, or their families or friends who know their situation. Some of them are thus serving the devil in the guise of promoting conservative Christianity. Like Paul said about the Israelites, they have a lot of zeal but without the proper knowledge.

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  7. #384
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Alzheimer's ? My thought as I type is that if that person doesn't recognize his or her spouse at all then there isn't much point in calling it a marriage.

    Disagree with you there.....we still say 'in sickness and in health' in marriage vows.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Disagree with you there.....we still say 'in sickness and in health' in marriage vows.
    There is always the question of where to draw the line with extreme cases. The spouse may be held in an artificial coma and be brain dead for instance. That is still "in sickness and in health" as long as the person isn't a decomposing corpse. They are able to keep that up almost indefinitely these days.

    I recall the wife of the neighbor of my grandparents who became demented towards the end of her life. The last time I met her she was largely dysfunctional but she was able to relate to people around her at all, including her husband. That is a wife who is sick. What people should do who have a spouse who is demented beyond recognition and who are quite young, is a more difficult question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    There is always the question of where to draw the line with extreme cases. The spouse may be held in an artificial coma and be brain dead for instance. That is still "in sickness and in health" as long as the person isn't a decomposing corpse. They are able to keep that up almost indefinitely these days.

    I recall the wife of the neighbor of my grandparents who became demented towards the end of her life. The last time I met her she was largely dysfunctional but she was able to relate to people around her at all, including her husband. That is a wife who is sick. What people should do who have a spouse who is demented beyond recognition and who are quite young, is a more difficult question.
    Christians have always had this issue.....many have stayed faithful to their spouses even when they are sick or in wheelchairs for years

    Christ doesn't abandon christians in sickness

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Christians have always had this issue.....many have stayed faithful to their spouses even when they are sick or in wheelchairs for years

    Christ doesn't abandon christians in sickness
    Of course not. You're changing the scenario a whole lot compared to what I was discussing, by now. I did specify the parameters of what I was discussing :

    Alzheimer's ? My thought as I type is that if that person doesn't recognize his or her spouse at all then there isn't much point in calling it a marriage.

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    It's still a marriage even if someone gets total Alzheimer's

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  17. #389
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    It's still a marriage even if someone gets total Alzheimer's
    What about the braindead person who is being kept artificially alive from 6 months into the marriage at 19 and until he or she is 80 ? At some point there isn't that much to discuss or counsel about any longer, in my opinion.

    I think I would actually take offense at being told to undergo marriage counselling for or against my own wishes along with a wife who just got out of prison after trying to murder me and successfully murdering the children and who remains unrepentant.

    At that point I would probably consider it a matter of applying the Christian version of sati-ism. Or Medieval Islam according to the worst possible tafsir (interpretation).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    What about the braindead person who is being kept artificially alive from 6 months into the marriage at 19 and until he or she is 80 ? At some point there isn't that much to discuss or counsel about any longer, in my opinion.

    I think I would actually take offense at being told to undergo marriage counselling for or against my own wishes along with a wife who just got out of prison after trying to murder me and successfully murdering the children and who remains unrepentant.

    At that point I would probably consider it a matter of applying the Christian version of sati-ism. Or Medieval Islam according to the worst possible tafsir (interpretation).

    You are now using absurd analogies to justify your position....can you name one person who is brain dead at 19 who lives to 80

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