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Thread: So I just heard TD Jakes tell a couple to get divorced...

  1. #21
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Well the point is, they were married regardless. So as a minister, because he 'gets' what happened and knows why it's gone bad, he should recommend divorce?
    ABSOLUTELY not..A lot of people marry with false or unrealistic expectations...neither make the marriage covenant null..it just means they 'signed a contract' without reading the fine print..

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    I wouldn't say that he recommended a divorce

    She clearly didn't want to be married a point which crystallized as the show went on

    As Paul said if a spouse wants to depart let him/her depart .. So he was simply telling the man to accept the fact that she had no desire for the marriage.

    We are called to peace so I believe the bishop was correct on this one
    Paul was talking to a God fearing spouse...in this case he should have called both of them on their lack of a strong relationship with the Lord and a lack of commitment to their covenant...instead he essentially said, just let her go...besides there is no reason to ASSUME the one wanting to depart is an unbeliever..

    IF these two claimed to be Christ followers or 'saved' he should challenge BOTH of them to step up..IMHO

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  5. #23
    Don't Ban me Bro! John's Avatar
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    here we go agin....


    what constitutes a covenant?

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    Being a little harsh there Quest

    Question: what if Joseph had attempted to point Pharaoh to his father and his covenant before the time when pharaoh himself asked to meet Joseph's father ? Beheading perhaps ?

    Jesus himself held back on saying certain things to certain people cos they weren't ready for it at the time . He himself said not to cast pearls before swine .

    The whole premise of the said show was saving marriages and stopping divorce and the woman in question who had already filed for divorce was pretty adamant that she doesn't want to be married and was even belligerent towards TD Jakes on the show .

    Asking the guy to accept the obvious was neither psychological nor humanistic . It was biblical .
    No...it's not biblical...as for being harsh...Jesus sounded harsh on the topic...the truth sometimes sounds harsh...but the only reason it sounds harsh is because what the church has been teaching and preaching is so far from the Biblical truth of marriage and covenant that the truth sounds totally ridiculous..

    There is nothing harsh about telling a man and a woman that there marriage is not 'just an agreement that one decided won't work..it's a covenant..one that GOD expects us to keep, good or bad...while also promising that if we will let HIM be LORD He can redeem what seems unredeemable. If after ONE party has totally allowed God to love the other spouse through them, truly committed heart and soul to the marriage the partner STILL wants to leave...let them go. Considering the divorce rate among professing believers I doubt very many grasp that sold out concept..most accept the philosophical clone..

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  9. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    No...it's not biblical...as for being harsh...Jesus sounded harsh on the topic...the truth sometimes sounds harsh...but the only reason it sounds harsh is because what the church has been teaching and preaching is so far from the Biblical truth of marriage and covenant that the truth sounds totally ridiculous..

    There is nothing harsh about telling a man and a woman that there marriage is not 'just an agreement that one decided won't work..it's a covenant..one that GOD expects us to keep, good or bad...while also promising that if we will let HIM be LORD He can redeem what seems unredeemable. If after ONE party has totally allowed God to love the other spouse through them, truly committed heart and soul to the marriage the partner STILL wants to leave...let them go. Considering the divorce rate among professing believers I doubt very many grasp that sold out concept..most accept the philosophical clone..
    Methinks yOU should watch the show.. The divorce was already in process. The Papers had been filed . The wife was pretty adamant she wanted out so in a sesne teh underlined portion of your post had already taken place

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  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    Paul was talking to a God fearing spouse...in this case he should have called both of them on their lack of a strong relationship with the Lord and a lack of commitment to their covenant...instead he essentially said, just let her go...besides there is no reason to ASSUME the one wanting to depart is an unbeliever..

    IF these two claimed to be Christ followers or 'saved' he should challenge BOTH of them to step up..IMHO
    Again watch the show ..

    She seemed like an unbeliever to me or at least she sounded like one .. Not sure how that's relevant though.


    The laws of marriage are the same whether or not you are dealing with an unbeliever

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  13. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    No...it's not biblical...as for being harsh...Jesus sounded harsh on the topic...the truth sometimes sounds harsh...but the only reason it sounds harsh is because what the church has been teaching and preaching is so far from the Biblical truth of marriage and covenant that the truth sounds totally ridiculous..

    There is nothing harsh about telling a man and a woman that there marriage is not 'just an agreement that one decided won't work..it's a covenant..one that GOD expects us to keep, good or bad...while also promising that if we will let HIM be LORD He can redeem what seems unredeemable. If after ONE party has totally allowed God to love the other spouse through them, truly committed heart and soul to the marriage the partner STILL wants to leave...let them go. Considering the divorce rate among professing believers I doubt very many grasp that sold out concept..most accept the philosophical clone..
    True indeed but our call to Peace and Wholeness is Greater than our call to Marriage ... Marriage is not the ultimate calling it is the platform for two to put 10000 to flight not the end goal of life in and of itself

    Paul was very CLEAR --- let him/her depart... That's biblical wisdom .. Sometimes growth comes by negation rather than addition . I realize many of us think we are more spiritual than Paul and proceed to make ourselves into martyrs over whats often a lost cause but these are the biblical facts ...

    Fact is neither of these two were ready for marriage or even had a clue what they were doing. The wife was two weeks out of a previously abusive marriage and was simply looking for something to latch on to and the man apparently derived all his self esteem from his wife rather than from God ..no wonder she was filing for divorce less than 5 months into their marriage . Not sure what the annulment laws are in the state they live in but personally I believe their marriage should have been annulled

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    here we go agin....


    what constitutes a covenant?
    Short answer, Marriage constitutes a covenant.

    Nope...The Bible has NO loopholes to the marriage/covenant. I don't see the Bible dealing with any EVOLVED version of marriage that is NOT a covenant and the Bible has no examples of marriage that was NOT viewed as a covenant..marriage and covenant are the same thing....two people agree to get married...they are married...they are IN covenant...

    Jesus words were so simple..Can a man divorce his wife for any reason? No..He didn't say, 'well, let's consider...were they REALLY MARRIED OR IN COVENANT TO BEGIN WITH? Did the man or the woman lie about their motives? Did God actually officiate the ceremony?'

    We cannot mix up the worldly additions to the simple concept of marriage/covenant..It is simply two people agreeing to 'marry' and coming together as such..it is not a legal transaction that can be dissected line by line to see if there are any loopholes..

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    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    Methinks yOU should watch the show.. The divorce was already in process. The Papers had been filed . The wife was pretty adamant she wanted out so in a sesne teh underlined portion of your post had already taken place
    All irrelevant to what I said..I kind of doubt the underlined portion was actually done...rarely will a woman leave a man who is loving her the way Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it...

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    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    All irrelevant to what I said..I kind of doubt the underlined portion was actually done...rarely will a woman leave a man who is loving her the way Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it...
    A covenant typically includes conditions that render it void. The new covenant is made void when someone turns back to unbelief for instance. Then Christ disowns the person before the angels in heaven and is no longer in covenant with the person.

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