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Thread: So I just heard TD Jakes tell a couple to get divorced...

  1. #231
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    If we are to go by the letter then divorcing an absolute monster who professes faith (or doesn't want out) and doesn't commit adultery, is impossible. In some parts of the world he will be able to stay out of prison too, even if he abuses his wife physically, as long as she remains alive. He may also be able to keep her as his slave in every which way, much like Josef Fritzl did. Is this the extreme case that almost doesn't exist ? Absolutely not.

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  3. #232
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    If we are to go by the letter then divorcing an absolute monster who professes faith (or doesn't want out) and doesn't commit adultery, is impossible. In some parts of the world he will be able to stay out of prison too, even if he abuses his wife physically, as long as she remains alive. He may also be able to keep her as his slave in every which way, much like Josef Fritzl did. Is this the extreme case that almost doesn't exist ? Absolutely not.
    If we don't believe Jesus and Paul established the boundaries in the NT guidebook for living, then there are no legitimate boundaries..we are all left to do what seems right in our own eyes..

    Colonel it's not our job to make the decision of what is right or wrong...it is our job to see what GOD said and then ask Him HOW to I stay faithful and obedient?

    Like I said, when you remove the boundaries of scripture you have no boundaries and people do what is right in their own eyes...self justification..

    For you one is only justified in this situation or that..for another they ask who are you to judge me for MY situation?

    Without Jesus words being taken literally and Paul's words being taken literally that is all you have left.

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  5. #233
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Romans 7:6
    2 Cor 3:6

    I once read Romans chapter 6 one thousand times during a summer, you should make it your assignment to read those two verses one thousand times, that shouldn't take that much time.
    And that's going to change with Jesus said to mean something different? I don't think so..

    Don't you see the irony here Colonel? You are criticizing some for their expanded stance of justified reasons and yet you have done the same thing...maybe you didn't move the bar as far as others but you still moved it...

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  7. #234
    Senior Member FresnoJoe's Avatar
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    The Boundaries

    Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; Ephesians 5:25

    Are Found In Jesus

    Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. Hebrews 7:25

  8. #235
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    AND...

    Matthew 19

    1 Corinthians 7
    Combine those with Ephesian 5:33
    “Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband”

    and Hebrews 7:25

    Now you have God's will and God's way.

    Sadly some have decided if the wife does not honor they don't have to love her or if the husband does not love her and treat her well, she does not have to honor him..

    Self justification...

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  10. #236
    Well see Quest, here's the thing. In your world, a con artist could marry someone, steal their spouses' life savings, beat them to within an inch of their life, and as long as they didn't commit adultery, you'd say that the wronged spouse should not file for divorce because Jesus never said: someone who marries a conartist unknowingly, gets cheated, and almost beaten to death has my permission to divorce.

    This is why we keep saying that your view is legalistic. Your are neglecting the spirit of Jesus Words in their totality and narrowly interpreting them.

    I don't think anyone that posts here would ever condone being flippant about the covenant of marriage. But to so narrowly define legitimate reasons for divorce condemns people. I

    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    If the boundaries scripture has placed are removed there are no boundaries...
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    Hmmm....the problem I see with where this thread went was in the 'what justifies divorce'. The irony here? Again, the Bible itself only gives TWO..and even one of those is not recommended...so when people start to debate from human reasoning and even trying to use various unrelated passages to prove the limit it gets really muddy...

    Why not just stick to what scripture actually says? No wonder it's so rampant in the church...doing what seems right in their own eyes..

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  12. #237
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    If we don't believe Jesus and Paul established the boundaries in the NT guidebook for living, then there are no legitimate boundaries..we are all left to do what seems right in our own eyes..

    Colonel it's not our job to make the decision of what is right or wrong...it is our job to see what GOD said and then ask Him HOW to I stay faithful and obedient?

    Like I said, when you remove the boundaries of scripture you have no boundaries and people do what is right in their own eyes...self justification..

    For you one is only justified in this situation or that..for another they ask who are you to judge me for MY situation?

    Without Jesus words being taken literally and Paul's words being taken literally that is all you have left.
    If all you ever need is the letter then why was the Holy Spirit sent to be your counsellor ?

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  14. #238
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    And that's going to change with Jesus said to mean something different? I don't think so..

    Don't you see the irony here Colonel? You are criticizing some for their expanded stance of justified reasons and yet you have done the same thing...maybe you didn't move the bar as far as others but you still moved it...
    What I said was that one cannot create blanket rules outside scriptural boundaries.

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  16. #239
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CatchyUsername View Post
    Well see Quest, here's the thing. In your world, a con artist could marry someone, steal their spouses' life savings, beat them to within an inch of their life, and as long as they didn't commit adultery, you'd say that the wronged spouse should not file for divorce because Jesus never said: someone who marries a conartist unknowingly, gets cheated, and almost beaten to death has my permission to divorce.

    This is why we keep saying that your view is legalistic. Your are neglecting the spirit of Jesus Words in their totality and narrowly interpreting them.

    I don't think anyone that posts here would ever condone being flippant about the covenant of marriage. But to so narrowly define legitimate reasons for divorce condemns people. I
    I don't believe Jesus was flippant when He said there was only one ground for divorce...you chose to present an extreme analogy that is devoid of any faith in GOD and any accountability of the believer who made that CHOICE..


    Problem # 1. The church has failed to teach and exemplify the true nature of MARRIAGE.. So We have a problem cycle in the church...people marry without entering it fearfully and prayerfully believing God has a selected spouse for them..

    Problem #2. The church has failed to teach DIVORCE from the BIBLICAL perspective both before and after marriage so people marry with far less prayer and care.

    Problem #3. Because of problem # and Problem # 2 there actually IS NO Biblical standard for divorce within the church of God.

    I would say the over 50% divorce rate in the church proves the church teaching is flippant on both marriage and divorce...

    Catchy, I am sure you don't make your other decisions of right and wrong based on scenarios but rely on scripture to guide you. Why do otherwise with the issue of divorce?

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  18. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    They make blanket rules outside of the very few cases that the Bible specifically condones. For instance by redefining adultery to include not being given proper attention (or something like that) and then there is all of a sudden a blanket rule that can be applied to almost anything, which really means that anyone who feels like divorcing and who has any kind of a marriage problem will be able to fit that into the blanket rule.
    They are not blanket rules .. They are scriptural rules that reflect the reality of life

    Ignoring your spouse leads to temptation .. In the case of rendering due benovalence it could lead to fornication, Pornography and so on and so forth ..Paul makes that absolutely clear. .. If you fail to provide materially it could lead to stealing , deception and so on and so forth ..Why should anyone be condemned to a life where they live under emotional pressure ?

    These are all laid out in the scriptures and reflect the real issues that Millions face today in their marriages. You cannot Ignore those Issues on this topic

    Blanket Rules can be made as it pertains to anything. There is always the potential for the grace of God to be used as an opportunity to indulge on any subject but Legalism which is the the Yeast of the Pharisees is not the answer ...

    Legalists always saw Jesus as being far more lenient than what the legalistic would like and I am convinced that is what is happening here

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