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Thread: So I just heard TD Jakes tell a couple to get divorced...

  1. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    I'm frequently studying the Bible and not just discussing the topic in the narrowest sense. Since BAP posted a rather well known passage from Ecclesiastes, that got me interested in and of itself. No, it is not referring to WHATEVER. Sorry, BAP. And no, it's not the end of the world if you disagree with me, either.
    So what is Ecclesiastes referring to if not whatever ? 😄

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  3. #212
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    Not inviting you to entrench yourself in any trenches my good friend . Simply puzzled at your ability to argue against your own position even in the same thread��

    No sweat just makes you extremely difficult to understand that's all
    Not if one bothers to read the whole thread and not just that one post. My view doesn't correspond exactly to your view and I'm interested in pointing out details, including pertaining to various passages. It's perfectly possible to use the wrong scripture to promote the right view and thereby make a total mess of the scripture involved, creating new problems that are even worse than what the other party is promoting by way of their opposing view. I'm not saying that that is what you did with Ecclesiastes, not at all. But details to matter.

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  5. #213
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    So what is Ecclesiastes referring to if not whatever ? ��
    There is one season to steal, one to rape
    One to murder, one to commit fraud
    One to send the righteous to hell, one to send the unrighteous to heaven
    One to kill God, one to worship the devil

    Nope, it doesn't.

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  7. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    There is one season to steal, one to rape
    One to murder, one to commit fraud
    One to send the righteous to hell, one to send the unrighteous to heaven
    One to kill God, one to worship the devil

    Nope, it doesn't.
    You are arguing against your own imagination at this point my friend if indeed you think what I am saying remotely resembles what you have listed above.

    But like you said it's ok to agree to disagree . Sonetimes it's just no longer worth the effort

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  9. #215
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    You asked if it refers to whatever, and the answer to that is no.

    The next question is what does it refer to and what does it not refer to.

    Quest would include "divorce" with the list of activities I just wrote, you would include "divorce" along with sowing, reaping etc. Input = output.

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  11. #216
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    This is part of what I've been discussing half of the time in this thread. All the reasons people give as legitimate for divorcing that are not. Just because there ARE reasons beyond what the letter of scripture declares, doesn't mean that every last ridiculous exposition on scripture that people make up to justify whatever it was that they reasoned would make them feel better about having divorced their spouse, is scriptural. Some of the stuff on divorcehope.com is just that, RIDICULOUS. As Cardinal pointed out, all of it isn't. But some of it is. In a trench war climate that can some times be seen here, one is expected to simply choose sides and then either reject EVERYTHING at that site or endorse EVERYTHING at that site. Which is out of the question. It will never happen. And I don't jolly care what the subject is.

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  13. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    All the reasons people give as legitimate for divorcing that are not. Just because there ARE reasons beyond what the letter of scripture declares, doesn't mean that every last ridiculous exposition on scripture that people make up to justify whatever it was that they reasoned would make them feel better about having divorced their spouse, is scriptural.
    Bingo. It boggles my mind at some of the justification for divorce in this thread. I had no idea.

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  15. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    This is part of what I've been discussing half of the time in this thread. All the reasons people give as legitimate for divorcing that are not. Just because there ARE reasons beyond what the letter of scripture declares, doesn't mean that every last ridiculous exposition on scripture that people make up to justify whatever it was that they reasoned would make them feel better about having divorced their spouse, is scriptural. Some of the stuff on divorcehope.com is just that, RIDICULOUS. As Cardinal pointed out, all of it isn't. But some of it is. In a trench war climate that can some times be seen here, one is expected to simply choose sides and then either reject EVERYTHING at that site or endorse EVERYTHING at that site. Which is out of the question. It will never happen. And I don't jolly care what the subject is.
    Like I said you are arguing with your own imagination as you often do

    Just because you don't see or understand how a scripture applies to a situation doesn't mean it doesn't and shod be dismissed out hand . It just may mean that you should spend time one the scripture a little more .

    And it sure as heck doesn't mean you should substitute what the other person is saying with your own imaginative constructs. Creating strawmen arguments where none need to be

    Like it or not Ecclesiastes says what it means that pertaining to every activity under the sun there are appropriate responses that may sometimes seem contradictory . Therein lies the very obvious point .

    Look at the following verses

    Proverbs 26
    4Answer not a fool according to his folly,
    lest you be like him yourself.

    5Answer a fool according to his folly,
    lest he be wise in his own eyes.
    Note the inherent contradiction ?
    Vs 4 says not to answer a fool the very next verse 5 says you should answer a fool .

    Question is which one is it ?? What should the appropriate response be when faced with two situations That look similar on the surface

    Well the answer depends on context or season (per Ecclesiastes) but a legalistic person will insist only one of those verses is relevant and stake every thing on whatever leg he/she chooses as if the opposing verse isn't there this declaring all further debate closed

    This is the simple point I was trying to highlight with Ecclesiastes that you have managed to parlay into a totally USELESS argument convincing yourself that Bap may be using ecclesiastes to endorse seasonal murder , rape , frivolous divorce or whatever other nonsensical constructs your imagination wants to come up with

    I am done

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  17. #219
    Bingo. It boggles my mind at some of the justification for divorce in this thread. I had no idea.
    Anyway Don't let the colonel boggle your mind .. Nothing mind boggling about divorce justification has been proferred by anyone except those who insist on creating strawmen
    Last edited by krystian; 09-27-2015 at 11:58 PM.

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  19. #220
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    Like I said you are arguing with your own imagination as you often do

    Just because you don't see or understand how a scripture applies to a situation doesn't mean it doesn't and shod be dismissed out hand . It just may mean that you should spend time one the scripture a little more .

    And it sure as heck doesn't mean you should substitute what the other person is saying with your own imaginative constructs. Creating strawmen arguments where none need to be

    Like it or not Ecclesiastes says what it means that pertaining to every activity under the sun there are appropriate responses that may sometimes seem contradictory . Therein lies the very obvious point .

    Look at the following verses


    Note the inherent contradiction ?
    Vs 4 says not to answer a fool the very next verse 5 says you should answer a fool .

    Question is which one is it ?? What should the appropriate response be when faced with two situations That look similar on the surface

    Well the answer depends on context or season (per Ecclesiastes) but a legalistic person will insist only one of those verses is relevant and stake every thing on whatever leg he/she chooses as if the opposing verse isn't there this declaring all further debate closed

    This is the simple point I was trying to highlight with Ecclesiastes that you have managed to parlay into a totally USELESS argument convincing yourself that Bap may be using ecclesiastes to endorse seasonal murder , rape , frivolous divorce or whatever other nonsensical constructs your imagination wants to come up with

    I am done
    Now that you agree that everything is NOT included, we are back to trying to figure out what IS included. According to you, divorce outside of adultery and the unbeliever wants out IS included, according to Quest it is NOT included. Which implies stalemate.

    Maybe you are right, maybe you are wrong.

    Even if you ARE right, we are still left with having to define just HOW FAR we are to go with including divorce rather than "frivolous divorce"

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