Thread: So I just heard TD Jakes tell a couple to get divorced...

Originally Posted by Quest

You quotd Proverbs and then asked ...Grounds for divorce?

No...Proverbs is just stating a fact...not giving grounds for divorce...

I thought proverbs was the book of wisdom inspired by the Holy Ghost? So proverbs has no applicability to our lives ...? I see ...

So much for being the stickler for the word eh ?

You said

Now that you ask a question that seems to ignore the power of the love of God I will answer...no, you stay married because you desire to exemplify the character and love of God and obey Him..

And you ignore the Wisdom of God spiritual superwoman that you are .. God says "slow down" you say I am going for it anyway .. ... Sorry sis God only allows temptations to the degree that you can bear .. beyond that he provides a way of escape ...trying to stay in a bad situation when God provides escape is self abuse based on religious self pride and nothing more .

Does it occur to you that divorce is sometimes a away of escape ? Afterall the verses you keep quoting says we are called to PEACE doesnt it ?

Seriously you talk as if being married is the ONLY place where one or both parties can experience the Love of God and the peace of God ..as if being married to an individual is the end all be all of life even when the marriage is detrimental in many ways. When you get divorced all opportunity for peace , wholeness etc etc etc go out of the window ?

Yes I know no one should be frivolous with marriage but legalism is not the answer to frivolity . Legalism is only often proof of a lack of trust in the Holy Ghost and his Power to bring about positive change without some hard law so sorry Quest you are the one ignoring the Power of God's love not me ...

Originally Posted by Colonel

God's love to us, the ones showing God's love, is also part of this.

Yes, He demonstrates it to us and then expects us to love other's the same way...that includes our spouse..so just as He loves us unconditionally He tells us to love them unconditionally. Apparently God does not view divorce from us as an option for Himself despite our adulteries and our sins and our neglect of Him while at the same time He does allow us to choose to stay 'married to Him' or 'divorce Him.' And as I understand it divorce is that decision that the reprobate makes when they knowingly and willfully push Him out of their life...

God intends for marriage to be the parallel to our relationship with Him and His relationship with us...as his children we are called to exemplify HIM regardless of how our spouse acts...

Originally Posted by BAP

I thought proverbs was the book of wisdom inspired by the Holy Ghost? So proverbs has no applicability to our lives ...? I see ...

Bap..don't do that...don't twist what I say...Yes, Proverbs IS wisdom inspired by the Holy Ghost and is applicable to our lives...but Solomon did not say..'So divorce her'. He didn't even imply that.so you can't take it and try to use it to change what Paul and Jesus stated.

So much for being the stickler for the word eh ?

So much for trying to alter the interpret a clearly stated passage by taking another out of context..Solomon had 1000 wives and concubines Bap..so are we to interpret that to mean we can?

You said


And you ignore the Wisdom of God spiritual superwoman that you are .. God says "slow down" you say I am going for it anyway .. ... Sorry sis God only allows temptations to the degree that you can bare .. beyond that he provides a way of escape ...trying to stay in a bad situation when God provides escape is self abuse based on religious self pride and nothing more .

Again...no..God does not allow temptations only to the degree that we can bear..God enables us to bear and overcome any and ALL temptations if we are WILLING to allow Him to.
Does it occur to you that divorce is sometimes a away of escape ? Afterall the verses you keep quoting says we are called to PEACE doesnt it ?

No because the Bible CLEARLY says otherwise...When God makes a way of escape it will not violate His word..

Seriously you talk as if being married is the ONLY place where one or both parties can experience the Love of God and the peace of God ..as if being married to an individual is the end all be all of life even when the marriage is detrimental in many ways. When you get divorced all opportunity for peace , wholeness etc etc etc go out of the window ?

Yes I know no one should be frivolous with marriage but legalism is not the answer to frivolity . Legalism is only often proof of a lack of trust in the Holy Ghost and his Power to bring about positive change without some hard law so sorry Quest you are the one ignoring the Power of God's love not me ...

Legalism and obeying scriptural instructions are not the same thing..legalism is obedience for the sake of earning salvation or God's love...we don't obey the scriptures and stay married to earn either of those...we do it to be like HIM...because we desire to be the expression of His character and nature more...and because we trust His love and faithfulness to change us and work on our behalf..

One has to not clearly understand God's view of marriage to believe that He ever views divorce as a necessity...His love and power know no limits.

Proverbs..Commit your way unto the LORD...decide to submit your decisions and choices to simply obey Him and He will establish your thoughts...He will direct our day to day life with our spouse once we eliminate divorce as an option....

Originally Posted by Quest

God intends for marriage to be the parallel to our relationship with Him and His relationship with us...as his children we are called to exemplify HIM regardless of how our spouse acts...

I think that is going too far with the picture of Christ and his bride. The picture is often taken too far in relation to Christ vs his bride but this time it is the other way around. Our relationship to Christ and him only is essential to our eternal wellbeing.

Originally Posted by Quest

Legalism and obeying scriptural instructions are not the same thing..legalism is obedience for the sake of earning salvation or God's love...we don't obey the scriptures and stay married to earn either of those...we do it to be like HIM...because we desire to be the expression of His character and nature more...and because we trust His love and faithfulness to change us and work on our behalf..

One has to not clearly understand God's view of marriage to believe that He ever views divorce as a necessity...His love and power know no limits.

Proverbs..Commit your way unto the LORD...decide to submit your decisions and choices to simply obey Him and He will establish your thoughts...He will direct our day to day life with our spouse once we eliminate divorce as an option....

In the strict sense, legalism refers to earning salvation by keeping law. If you don't like the term as BAP applies it, we could term it "letter orientedness", for instance.

Originally Posted by Colonel

I think that is going too far with the picture of Christ and his bride. The picture is often taken too far in relation to Christ vs his bride but this time it is the other way around. Our relationship to Christ and him only is essential to our eternal wellbeing.

Explain further showing how this is verifiable scripturally..because I really don't get what you are saying.

Originally Posted by Quest

Explain further showing how this is verifiable scripturally..because I really don't get what you are saying.

I was just pointing out that the relation between a husband and wife is not as essential nor as fundamental as between Christ and his bride. It is temporal per default (Jesus pinpointed this in a discussion with the Pharisees), non-essential to life and wellbeing and doesn't revolve around one and only one possible candidate. Don't go too far with the picture in the reverse direction either.

Originally Posted by Colonel

In the strict sense, legalism refers to earning salvation by keeping law. If you don't like the term as BAP applies it, we could term it "letter orientedness", for instance.

So let's say scripture tells us we are not to lie..oh wait, you already said that was legalism because at times God approves lying..never mind I get where you stand...

Needless to say, I don't agree that that is the correct interpretation and application of that passage because you are trying to use to justify options regarding divorce the scriptures don't give using passage that is clearly speaking of the rituals and ordinances of the OT that were pointing to Christ. To apply that to scriptures clear instructions regarding the knowledge of sin and God's will is wrong..

If your interpretation were correct we could add the following..

Adultery is a sin except when...
Lying is wrong except when...
Stealing is wrong except when...

ect..

And quite frankly Colonel, you are convincing me that is what you believe..

I would almost BET you would pick and choose which ones should have the "when' and which ones don't...you would probably argue tht adultery is NEVER justified because there is no good that can come from it...funny though...some would argue that they were justified and that YOU are using the 'letter of legalism'. And then you turn around and say that lying IS permissible because it can be used to do good...and on the abortion thread you validated murder as justified when the health of the mother is in the mix..

So, yes, bro...I am a legalist by YOUR definition, but not one by scripture. I choose to believe that when Jesus made the statement that there was only ONE ground for divorce that He meant it and that He was expressing the heart and will of God..that there were no implied or stated Buts or addendums or special clauses...I believe what God states is sin, is sin..no exceptions for our personal experiences...it's sin..so when Jesus stated the Father's will in marriage I believe God's children are expected to embrace the Father's will and trust Him with the outcome...

Originally Posted by Quest

Explain further showing how this is verifiable scripturally..because I really don't get what you are saying.

Never mind Colonel..I think I understand clearly your POV now..

Originally Posted by Colonel

I was just pointing out that the relation between a husband and wife is not as essential nor as fundamental as between Christ and his bride.

As essential? no because marriage is a choice we make, but definitely a comparable parallel we are to follow when married.

It is temporal per default (Jesus pinpointed this in a discussion with the Pharisees),

Yes it's temporal but that does not alter His words in Matthew either..

non-essential to life and wellbeing and doesn't revolve around one and only one possible candidate.

So you believe divorce and remarriage are not to be taken lightly but that God is ok with it essentially..despite Jesus own words...He seemed to think it was QUITE a big deal.

Don't go too far with the picture in the reverse direction either.

Too late...I already have...When the Bible stated that a husband is to love his wife the way Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it.