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Thread: So I just heard TD Jakes tell a couple to get divorced...

  1. #121
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    I see no issue with God hating divorce but still say there are genuine biblical reasons where divorce and remarriage can still occur.

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  3. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle View Post
    I have read the entire thread and still......just because two people 'join' themselves together, it doesn't mean God did it.

    "What God has joined together, let not man put asunder." There is meaning in that sentence and it isn't just one layer deep.
    (I can't find the plain thumbs up smiley?)

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  5. #123
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krystian View Post
    I haven't finished the thread yet but it seems your main point revolves around the misinterpretation of the Hebrew word shalach in the OT and its Greek equivalent apoulo in the NT which were loosely translated as divorce...they are not referring to a divorce as we know it, but rather to a husband 'separating' from his wife without an actual writ of divorcement being written.

    I know you don't agree with that interpretation Quest but if you do a thorough study on all the times those words are used you will see the correct contexts. This is an excellent site that goes into detail on the Matthew 19 passage as well as others that refer to 'divorce':



    Book of Matthew 19, ( Matt 19 ) Bible Study on Divorce (Putting Away) and Remarriage.

    [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]As we study the Greek and Hebrew words in Matt 19 and Malachi 2 we will learn that "divorce" was NOT what Jesus was teaching about, but rather, "putting away" which is far different than divorce...


    Understanding what happened in Malachi 2:10-16 is KEY to understanding Matthew 19:3-12 ( Matt 19 ).

    Malachi 2:16a reads, "For the Lord God of Israel says that HE HATES DIVORCE (putting away)." Why did God hate "putting away?" Why was His heart so stirred to anger over the "putting away" incidents?

    The Hebrew word shalach translated "putting away" (and sometimes "divorce") means: a separation or to separate; it does NOT mean divorce nor has it ever meant divorce — EVER!


    "Putting Away" (from shalach and apoluo) NEVER Meant Divorce!

    For example, shalach is used 878 times in the Old Testament and only 13 times related to a marriage or intimate relationship, which means; 865 times it is used in other situations. To show you that shalach never meant divorce nor does it in any way, here are five random examples from the Old Testament. Shalach word in bold:


    1. Genesis 8:7: (Noah on the Ark) ...of the ark which he had made. And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to...
    2. Genesis 24:7: (God giving Abraham the Promised Land) ...Unto thy seed will I give this land; he shall send his angel before thee...
    3. Exodus 5:1: (Moses delivering Israel from Egypt) ...the LORD God of Israel, Let my people go, that they may hold a feast unto...
    4. Joshua 6:25: (Rahab hid the Spies) ...day; because she hid the messengers, which Joshua sent to spy out Jericho.
    5. 2 Kings 5:10: (Naaman healed) ...of the house of Elisha. And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and ...


    Shalach's New Testament equivalent: apoluo, though at times is translated divorce never meant divorce nor does it mean divorce but rather, a separation.

    For example, apoluo is used 94 times in the New Testament and only 18 times related to marriage or intimate relationships. Which means it is used 76 times in other situations. To show you that apoluo never meant divorce, here are five random examples form the New Testament. Apoluo word in bold:


    1. Matthew 14:15: (Jesus feeds the Five Thousand) ...desert place, and the time is now past; send the multitude away, that they may go ...
    2. Luke 8:38: (Man with/ 2000 plus Demons) ...that he might be with him: but Jesus sent him away, saying, Return to thine
    3. Luke 13:12: (Woman with the Issue of Blood) ...her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity. And he laid ...
    4. Acts 4:23: (Lame man healed at the Gate Called Beautiful) ...this miracle of healing was shewed. And being let go, they went to their own company, and...
    5. Acts 15:33: (Judas & Silas Leaving Antioch) ...And after they had tarried there a space, they were let go in peace from the brethren unto the...
    This is Strong's definition of the word :

    1. to set free
    2. to let go, dismiss, (to detain no longer) a. a petitioner to whom liberty to depart is given by a decisive answer
    b. to bid depart, send away
    3. to let go free, release a. a captive i.e. to loose his bonds and bid him depart, to give him liberty to depart
    b. to acquit one accused of a crime and set him at liberty
    c. indulgently to grant a prisoner leave to depart
    d. to release a debtor, i.e. not to press one's claim against him, to remit his debt
    4. used of divorce, to dismiss from the house, to repudiate. The wife of a Greek or Roman may divorce her husband.
    5. to send one's self away, to depart

    4) tells us that it was used by the Gentiles about divorce. This is Koine Greek which was spoken by Gentiles, not by Jews.

    The rest of the points tell us that the word was used about being given liberty to depart which would not apply to a woman who was merely being separated from her husband while still remaining legally married to him and therefore not at liberty.

    This tells me that this theory set forth by divorcehope.com is nothing but wishful thinking finding its way onto a website.

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  7. #124
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    So why did God angrily say that He “…hated putting away [a separation]?” “…Because you have not kept My ways [concerning marriage, divorce and remarriage] but have SHOWN PARTIALITY IN THE LAW” (Malachi 2:9). The Law specifically stated that when a man got a divorce from his wife that he was to write “…her a CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE, put it in her hand, AND [shalach] send her out [put her away]…” (Deuteronomy 24:1). God also commanded them not to marry anyone who did not serve him ― who served a foreign god (See Nehemiah 13:25-30).

    Instead, men separated from their wives without ever giving them a Certificate of Divorce and then illegally married someone else. This is why the Lord said that they were still “their wife by covenant.” The marriage covenant had never been dissolved by the Divorce Certificate.

    “The Lord’s holy institution which He loves...the Lord has been witness between you and the wife of your youth ...[and] SHE [STILL] IS YOUR COMPANION AND YOUR WIFE BY COVENANT. For the Lord God of Israel says that He hates divorce [shalach], [separating without a Certificate of Divorce]....
    Let's have a look at the logic here. divorcehope.com defines the Hebrew word shalach as "separating without a certificate of divorce". Let's see what happens when we insert that translation into Deut 24:1 :

    "he writes her a certificate of divorce, puts it in her hand, and 'separates from her without a certificate of divorce'"

    Total nonsense.

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  9. #125
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/a...icle&aid=34768

    "Apoluo was used in secular Greco-Roman writings of discharge from the military, of release from jail or of setting a debtor free (these latter meanings also commonly found in the NT writings)."

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  11. #126
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/a...icle&aid=34768

    "Apoluo was used in secular Greco-Roman writings of discharge from the military, of release from jail or of setting a debtor free (these latter meanings also commonly found in the NT writings)."
    I don't believe the context of Matthew 19 supports that theory that Jesus was addressing some Jewish practice that is not, that I see, even addressed in the Bible...they took something history may have said (not sure of that either) and interjected it into scripture to explain what it does not say because what it does say is unpalatable. IMHO

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  13. #127
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    As I said...scripture states clearly what those TWO grounds are.
    I'm not entirely sure there is more than one and that involves the wishes of an unbeliever which would mean that in the case of the believer's wishes, there are none.

    Mat 5:32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

    The logic here seems to be that sending the wife away with a divorce paper will cause her to find an other husband and thereby commit adultery. In Jewish culture at the time of Jesus that was probably the truth, there weren't many independent women who weren't rich and their families would want to get rid of them if they returned to their household after a divorce. Independent women among the Gentiles seems to have been a bit more common.

    Why does it say "for any reason except sexual immorality" ? Does that make divorcing because of adultery legitimate per default ? Not necessarily because the logic is simply that if the wife is sent away because she is committing adultery then the act of divorcing her will not cause her to commit adultery for the simple reason that she is already doing so.

    Which means that in the case of two believers dealing with marriage problems, the default is to try to work through the problems, including if one or both have committed adultery.

    But that is also only part of the SUM of scripture, as discussed previously.

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  15. #128
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    At the other end of the spectrum we have taking a life for the pleasure of it and divorcing/remarrying in order to be evil against the abandoned spouse.

    Then convenience matters. Taking someone's life or divorcing/remarrying because life would be easier or better without them. "I don't feel like being married anymore" or "I want that woman instead"

    All of which are completely unjustifiable, of course.

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  17. #129
    Super Moderator Quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    I see no issue with God hating divorce but still say there are genuine biblical reasons where divorce and remarriage can still occur.
    What genuine Biblical reasons beyond adultery and the unbelieving spouse leaving?

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  19. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Quest View Post
    What genuine Biblical reasons beyond adultery and the unbelieving spouse leaving?
    Ah the voice of legalism :)


    What genuine biblical reason do we have that Satan tempted Eve in the garden . My bible says the Serpent did . Says nothing about Satan

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