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Thread: So I just heard TD Jakes tell a couple to get divorced...

  1. #101
    Senior Member Lively Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Didn't want to get into this debate .....sorry LS but that statement is incorrect
    Hey, if one loves oneself or anything else over one's spouse (except for God), that is a form of adultery. It is alienation, and a definite abdication from one's vows and one's role as spouse. Turning one's back on the other in a marriage is a dereliction, and can be construed as a form of adultery, and even idolatry when the Lord Jesus Christ is in that marriage.
    Last edited by Lively Stone; 09-18-2015 at 02:36 AM.

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  3. #102
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lively Stone View Post
    Hey, if one loves oneself or anything else over one's spouse (except for God), that is a form of adultery. It is alienation, and a definite abdication from one's vows and one's role as spouse. Turning one's back on the other in a marriage is a dereliction, and can be construed as a form of adultery, and even idolatry when the Lord Jesus Christ is in that marriage.
    Scripture, please.

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  5. #103
    Originally Posted by Lively Stone
    Hey, if one loves oneself or anything else over one's spouse (except for God), that is a form of adultery. It is alienation, and a definite abdication from one's vows and one's role as spouse. Turning one's back on the other in a marriage is a dereliction, and can be construed as a form of adultery, and even idolatry when the Lord Jesus Christ is in that marriage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Scripture, please.
    Well for one thing in the OT it was the reason Moses insisted on Divorce Vs Putting Away ..

    Putting away meant separation or neglect(Not divorce) . Divorce was an act of mercy on behalf of the neglected spouse. After divorce the neglected spouse was free to start over ..

    In the NT failure to provide for one's own makes you worse than an infidel. Yes I know that that particular scripture was talking about material provision but I believe it's all encompassing giving the scriptures on withholding affection and due benovalence ..

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  7. #104
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lively Stone View Post
    Hey, if one loves oneself or anything else over one's spouse (except for God), that is a form of adultery. It is alienation, and a definite abdication from one's vows and one's role as spouse. Turning one's back on the other in a marriage is a dereliction, and can be construed as a form of adultery, and even idolatry when the Lord Jesus Christ is in that marriage.

    Now you have changed it to say 'a form of adultery'.
    It is best to leave adultery as defined by scripture and not by our human reasoning

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  9. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Now you have changed it to say 'a form of adultery'.
    It is best to leave adultery as defined by scripture and not by our human reasoning
    Well adultery is repeatedly used as a synonym for infidelity in the scriptures and Infidelity basically is a failure to fulfill an obligation .

    LS is correct

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  11. #106
    http://www.divorcehope.com/godhatesdivorce.htm

    Which "Divorce" Does God Hate?
    Does God Really "Hate Divorce"?

    A remarriage or to remarry after divorce is the will of God! When God said, "I hate PUTTING AWAY," He NEVER meant divorce, but to SEPARATE. Meaning, divorce was good when needed. God never hated divorce, it was "something" else He hated.


    To Which Situation Did God Say, "I Hate Putting Away (Divorce)?"

    We have heard this Scripture: “the Lord God of Israel says that HE HATES DIVORCE” (Malachi 2:16). This is almost always quoted as if God hates all divorces in general. But that’s just not true. We have previously read from the Bible books of Ezra, Nehemiah, Jeremiah, Deuteronomy and 1Corinthians that God is not against divorce. Then why all the confusion concerning why God said that “He hates divorce?” The reason for the confusion is because there are TWO “kinds” of marriages and TWO “divorces” being mentioned in the Malachi 2:11-16 passage.

    The “divorces” were not official divorces; they didn’t need to be. They were already previously married and “unofficially” married again. The Hebrew word shalach means “putting away”― a separation, as correctly translated in most Bibles. However, the King James and a number of newer versions have incorrectly translated shalach as to mean: divorce. It never meant divorce and it doesn’t mean divorce. The word was most likely translated as “divorce” to fit what was taught in the church. Shalach is just a common word used throughout the Old Testament which means to: go, separate or to send. That’s it!

    So why did God angrily say that He “…hated putting away [a separation]?” “…Because you have not kept My ways [concerning marriage, divorce and remarriage] but have SHOWN PARTIALITY IN THE LAW” (Malachi 2:9). The Law specifically stated that when a man got a divorce from his wife that he was to write “…her a CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE, put it in her hand, AND [shalach] send her out [put her away]…” (Deuteronomy 24:1). God also commanded them not to marry anyone who did not serve him ― who served a foreign god (See Nehemiah 13:25-30).

    Instead, men separated from their wives without ever giving them a Certificate of Divorce and then illegally married someone else. This is why the Lord said that they were still “their wife by covenant.” The marriage covenant had never been dissolved by the Divorce Certificate.

    “The Lord’s holy institution which He loves...the Lord has been witness between you and the wife of your youth ...[and] SHE [STILL] IS YOUR COMPANION AND YOUR WIFE BY COVENANT. For the Lord God of Israel says that He hates divorce [shalach], [separating without a Certificate of Divorce].... He has [illegally] married the daughter of a foreign god. May the Lord cut off ...the man who does this being awake and aware” (Malachi 2:11,12a,14b,c,16a).

    Because these men had remarried illegally ― separated from their wives without giving them a Certificate of Divorce, they were in adultery as Jesus stated: “Furthermore it has been said, “Whoever PUTS AWAY [separates from {apoluo}] his wife, LET HIM GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE. But I say to you that whoever PUTS AWAY [separates and remarries without being divorced from] his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery: and whoever marries a woman who is PUT AWAY [separated without being divorced {apoluo}] commits adultery” (Matthew 5:31-32). (The Lord never forgot about the Malachi incident when He came to earth to redeem lost man).

    The Old Testament Hebrew word shalach and the New Testament Greek word apoluo are equivalent which will be discussed later.

    Because these disobedient men still had “un-divorced” wives, the Lord did not command them to give their illegal wives a Certificate of Divorce, rather, they simply had to “separate, put them away, [shalach].” SO DID GOD HATE DIVORCE? NO! RATHER, GOD HATED THAT THE HUSBANDS WERE SEPARATING FROM THEIR WIVES WITHOUT GIVING THEM A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE WHICH WOULD ENABLE THEM TO GET REMARRIED. THIS IS WHAT GOD HATES!

    The men of Israel were SEPARATING from their wives for self-gratifying reasons. God Himself was a “witness” at their original marriage ceremony which was still in effect. The marriage covenant was never dissolved by a Certificate of Divorce. The men remarried outside their own culture (race) and tribe. God considered the children they bore unholy because of the mixed marriages bringing curses into their families (See Ezra 9:1,2, Nehemiah 13:26-30).

    Because of these unauthorized marriages, the Word of God came to Ezra and Nehemiah to have the men and women of Israel who had done this thing, to separate from their spouse and even from their children (See Ezra 9:1, 11-12, 10:3, Nehemiah 13:23-27). In this situation, God’s command was to “put them away, separate yourselves from them!” This was NOT the kind of marriage to which God was saying, “I hate divorce!” He was saying loudly, “Get out of these wrong marriages!”

    DIVORCE IS A METHOD TO SEPARATE THE ONE, AND MAKE THEM INTO TWO just as a surgeon’s knife is used to separate the cancerous flesh from the healthy flesh. Both operations are good. Divorce can be used to kill a righteous marriage, just as a surgeon’s knife can be used to kill a healthy person.

    The Greek word apoluo: is the equivalent of the Hebrew word: shalach.


    There are many critical keys in this book regarding divorce, remarriage, submission, interracial marriage and relationships. Click on Divorce: God's Will? to order.

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  13. #107
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Krystian has linked that site several times the last ten years or so. It goes way too far and often down the wrong avenues, in my opinion.

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  15. #108
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    Well for one thing in the OT it was the reason Moses insisted on Divorce Vs Putting Away ..

    Putting away meant separation or neglect(Not divorce) . Divorce was an act of mercy on behalf of the neglected spouse. After divorce the neglected spouse was free to start over ..

    In the NT failure to provide for one's own makes you worse than an infidel. Yes I know that that particular scripture was talking about material provision but I believe it's all encompassing giving the scriptures on withholding affection and due benovalence ..
    Can you give me some examples of scriptures that make that distinction, putting away vs divorce ?

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  17. #109
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    Well adultery is repeatedly used as a synonym for infidelity in the scriptures and Infidelity basically is a failure to fulfill an obligation .

    LS is correct
    Not sure what you are referring to here. Adultery is used as a synonym for spiritual adultery, Israelites being in covenant with God yet worshipping idols.

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  19. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    Can you give me some examples of scriptures that make that distinction, putting away vs divorce ?
    I already did in post above but here is Matthew 5:31 from the YLT

    31‘And it was said, That whoever may put away his wife, let him give to her a writing of divorce; 32but I — I say to you, that whoever may put away his wife, save for the matter of whoredom, doth make her to commit adultery; and whoever may marry her who hath been put away doth commit adultery.
    The Greek words for divorce and Putting away are different so the YLT gets it right

    the KJV on the other hand translates putting away as divorce in V 32

    31It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

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