Thread: Worship on Sunday???

I had a rather spirited conversation with a nice 7th Day Adventist fellow a while back... so here's a good question for the resident experts:

Considering all of the 10 Commandments can be found in the New Testament (I understand we are not under the Levitical Law)... WHY is it that the 4th commandment seems to be ignored and we consider Sunday to be the day of the Lord???

The guy was pretty tough and got mad and accused me of murder, adultery, lying, etc because he assumed I was saying Christians do not have to honor the 10 Commandments which is not what I was saying at all (I was trying to not go all Farm Truck on this guy and run him over, but I did have to mention Ellen White and the problems that brings).

So, I'm just curious... if a nice 7th Day Adventist fellow cornered you and accused you of being in error cause you go to church on Sunday rather than Saturday... what scriptural case would you make for Sunday?

Because it just is

Originally Posted by Farm Truck

I had a rather spirited conversation with a nice 7th Day Adventist fellow a while back... so here's a good question for the resident experts:

Considering all of the 10 Commandments can be found in the New Testament (I understand we are not under the Levitical Law)... WHY is it that the 4th commandment seems to be ignored and we consider Sunday to be the day of the Lord???

The guy was pretty tough and got mad and accused me of murder, adultery, lying, etc because he assumed I was saying Christians do not have to honor the 10 Commandments which is not what I was saying at all (I was trying to not go all Farm Truck on this guy and run him over, but I did have to mention Ellen White and the problems that brings).

So, I'm just curious... if a nice 7th Day Adventist fellow cornered you and accused you of being in error cause you go to church on Sunday rather than Saturday... what scriptural case would you make for Sunday?

Their argument for it is reasonable...The Bible actually does not say anywhere that God changed the Sabbath day of rest...It was changed by some church leaders...it is very reasonable to believe the early church, primarily still of Jewish decent still worshiped on the Sabbath...and it is reasonable gentiles followed that same pattern in the beginning.

These are the 3 strong supports removing the legal restraint of the Sabbath.

Romans 14:5-6New International Version (NIV)

5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.
freedom regarding special days

Galatians 4:9-10 10New International Version (NIV)

9 But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces[a]? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!

Colossians 2:16-17 New International Version (NIV)

16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Mark 2:27...the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the
Sabbath.

Hebrews 4:9 seems to point to Jesus as our Sabbath Rest, faith in HIM so one could argue Jesus is the fulfillment of the prophetic message of the Sabbath...but that does not really answer the fact it was one of the 10 commandments along with adultery and stealing ...so the legal aspect is really all that addresses 7th Day Adventist theology...their choice to worship on Saturday is good as it represents their conscience...but their judgment of others who do not contradicts the NT.

That would be my approach...

But as for God or the Apostles changing the Sabbath to Sunday, there is no Biblical support for that..Saturday is still the Sabbath and if one chose to worship on that day rather than Sunday, that Is their choice.

Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight.

1 Corinthians 16:2 On the first day of every week each one of you is to put aside and save, as he may prosper, so that no collections be made when I come.

The sabbath was a day of rest remembering that God made the world in six (literal 24 hour) days and rested on the seventh.

We now gather to remember the risen Christ and He rose on the 1st day of the week, Sunday.

And anyway with the errors they've had calculating then years since the death of Christ what's to say they got the days exactly right making our week line up perfectly with the week in Moses' time?

Originally Posted by victoryword

Excellent post Quest.

I have become good friends with a fringe group of Seventh Day Adventists in Barbados who call themselves, "Truth for the Final Generation". They are a great group of guys and I have learned many things from them and they think highly of me as well despite me being a Pentecostal "Sunday Keeper" (as they teasingly like to call me). As a matter of fact they believe that more "Sunday Keepers" will enter the kingdom ahead of many of their fellow SDAs who exhibit no traits of love and are caught up more in rules than in Jesus.

That being said I have also had some lively discussions with them about Sabbath and Annihilationism (I am supposed to be writing a paper for them on why I believe that hell/lake of fire is literally eternal). I don't recall ever believing that Sunday is the Sabbath and I remain convinced that Saturday is the official "legal" Sabbath day of rest. No change.

What I am NOT convinced about is that I MUST hold church services on Saturday. I think it is great that some do. Heck, it is great if you can have a church service any day of the week. Worshipping God corporately or individually is not limited to a particular day. Sabbath is a rest day. And since I practically work six days a week anyway I do try to rest on Saturday.

But the truth be told, the Sabbath is indeed Saturday and if we are going to be Biblical then we must stay with that truth. However, it is NOT something we must be legalistic about. Saying that we MUST conduct church services on Saturday would be legalistic.

One other thing, my SDA friends in Barbados agrees with Quest's last point about Christ being our Sabbath which is why they do not see any issue with fellowshipping and receiving ministry from "Sunday Keepers" such as myself.

For the christian every day is the sabbath but from a practical matter saturday is my rest day .. that is when I socialize or relax and limit any tedious work simply because the body needs rest

Sunday however was when the early apostles met . The first day of the week and hence it was firstfruits of the week so to speak.

In all meeting on Sunday has nothing to do with keeping the sabbath . It's more in line with the first fruit principle than the sabbath principle

I keep the Sabbath every second of the day and night, that should qualify.

Originally Posted by Colonel

I keep the Sabbath every second of the day and night, that should qualify.

Exactly... under the New Covenant, we are living in the Year of Jubilee, the Year of the Lord's Favor.... and have entered in to the Lord's rest ceasing from our own works just as He has ceased from His own works.

Hebrews 4:8-11
For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Paul plainly declared that no Christian should be “judged” (i.e., condemned) for failing to observe the Sabbath (Col. 2:16) — a statement that never would have been made if the law of Moses had been binding when the apostle penned his letter. There is no command in the New Covenant to observe Saturday and there was plenty of opportunity to do so. This is not one of the things that was transferred from the old to the new like many others things that were.

The evidence of the New Testament is decisive. The early Christians met on “the first day of the week” (Acts 20:7), indeed “every first day of the week” (1 Cor. 16:2). [Note: The Greek of 1 Corinthians 16:2 is kata mian sabbatou, literally, “on the first day of every week” — see: J.H. Thayer, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, Edinburgh: T.&T. Clark, 1958, p. 328).

There is no biblical case that can be made in defense of “Christian Sabbath-keeping” for today. Efforts to this end are exercises in theological futility. That proposition has the support of neither Scripture mandate nor apostolic precedent.

And, if none of this helps... God never said this was the unpardonable sin to meet with other Christians on Sunday.

The 7th Day Adventist guy I was talking to lost his cookies when I told him he needed to actually believe the New Testament and quit being under the dominion of a denomination that allows women to be in authority over men as shown in 1 Timothy 3:1-13, and Titus 1:6-9

That's when he got mad and I guess thought I did not believe it was wrong to lie, commit adultery and other sins God's Word teaches are wrong both in the old and in the new Covenant.

So, for those of you that believe it's a sin to worship on Sundays... are you making plans to start worshiping on Saturday? What about the Friday cedar and wearing a prayer shawl? May as well go whole hog and bring back animal sacrifices... I'm sure you'll be popular with your neighbors doing this in your backyard