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Thread: Christian Mum who killed Daughters

  1. #21
    Frozen Chosen A.J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Just my own opinion, but if a person reaches the age of accountability for them, and doesn't get saved, then goes into mental illness, etc, they die unsaved (unless somehow they do get saved in their mental illness). They had their opportunity while they were in their right mind. If they are saved, and go into mental illness, I don't think God necessarily holds that against them, such as suicide because they are mentally ill. But I can't say for sure what happens to the saved that becomes mentally ill and then commits murder, etc, although on the surface it seems no different than the suicide issue.
    Agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    I don't have a dog in this hunt, but many believe as you do. I feel as I explained above. But I certainly don't have any definitive answers. I just see it as your opinion just as mine is an opinion. I can't say how what you have written makes GIMJ feel, but you're just stating your opinion IMO. No harm no foul as far as I'm concerned. GIMJ may feel different, but I think he can discuss this without being offended or hurt. I think.
    Agree.

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  3. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    I don't have a dog in this hunt, but many believe as you do. I feel as I explained above. But I certainly don't have any definitive answers. I just see it as your opinion just as mine is an opinion. I can't say how what you have written makes GIMJ feel, but you're just stating your opinion IMO. No harm no foul as far as I'm concerned. GIMJ may feel different, but I think he can discuss this without being offended or hurt. I think.
    No problem or emotional involvements here.

    If I agreed with T's assessment I would plainly say so, my brother notwithstanding.

    I just disagree that as T stated, that it is an automatic "dis-qualifier".

    Pretty simple actually.

    T jumped to huge conclusions, reading between the lines, so he thought.
    This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity (futility) of their mind, having the understanding darkened...
    (Ephesians 4:17-18)

    Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly...
    (Psalm 1)

  4. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    Just my own opinion, but if a person reaches the age of accountability for them, and doesn't get saved, then goes into mental illness, etc, they die unsaved (unless somehow they do get saved in their mental illness). They had their opportunity while they were in their right mind.

    If they are saved, and go into mental illness, I don't think God necessarily holds that against them, such as suicide because they are mentally ill. But I can't say for sure what happens to the saved that becomes mentally ill and then commits murder, etc, although on the surface it seems no different than the suicide issue.
    Actually, that says it very well!

    I don't know for sure either, but that fits my understanding of our Father's relation to His Children and it also bears witness to my spirit.

    Thanks.
    This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity (futility) of their mind, having the understanding darkened...
    (Ephesians 4:17-18)

    Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly...
    (Psalm 1)

  5. #24
    I wanted to comment on the supposed homosexuality "connection".

    I see a bigger difference between an actual baby Born-Again Christian who is demonically oppressed and driven to an act of impulse, and someone who continually yields to a spirit - following it into an active lifestyle of sin and subsequent mental illness, and who also wants it to be acceptable, is a whole 'nother matter.
    This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity (futility) of their mind, having the understanding darkened...
    (Ephesians 4:17-18)

    Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly...
    (Psalm 1)

  6. #25
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuego View Post
    I don't have a dog in this hunt, but many believe as you do. I feel as I explained above. But I certainly don't have any definitive answers. I just see it as your opinion just as mine is an opinion. I can't say how what you have written makes GIMJ feel, but you're just stating your opinion IMO. No harm no foul as far as I'm concerned. GIMJ may feel different, but I think he can discuss this without being offended or hurt. I think.
    If you feel its acceptable to continue then I will

    Per this thread ...this lady wilfully takes a gun out, calls a family meeting, wants her husband to apologise, says she will kill daughters out of spite towards husband.
    To go to that extreme shows a deliberate act of cold blood whether or not she suffers mental illness. It was calculated and she knew exactly what she was doing.
    She wasn't in a psychotic state and delusional

    I am not addressing suicide as that is another issue....this is the killing of another life

    Where do we draw the line since one can argue for mental illness in many murders....we have drug addicts, ladies who have abortions, post natal depression etc etc.
    It seems that man is no longer accountable to God for his actions and if we go down that line then how can any human end up in hell as no one is really responsible.


    1 John says that 'no murderer has eternal life' and Jesus called satan a murderer.

    Some will disagree but imo it starts to resemble a form of osas or even universalism



    Alert


    I would prefer to believe she is in heaven - it would make things easier and nicer
    Presently I cannot reconcile scripture with this thought.
    This is one area I would gladly be wrong

  7. #26
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodismyJudge View Post
    No problem or emotional involvements here.

    If I agreed with T's assessment I would plainly say so, my brother notwithstanding.

    I just disagree that as T stated, that it is an automatic "dis-qualifier".

    Pretty simple actually.

    T jumped to huge conclusions, reading between the lines, so he thought.

    You can disagree 100% with me and that is OK but you resorted to personal attack by calling me a pontificater. That does seem rich coming from someone who recently posted on evil speaking from book of James. If you were joking I would dismiss it but your past comments show me you had negative intent

    I tried to stick to the topic but you sidetracked it by getting personal

  8. #27
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Lets reverse the scenario

    You son or daughter was murdered by their christian spouse in a similar setting and then was shot dead by cops.
    They also had issues with mental illness.

    Are you swayed on what you believe if your child was the murdered victim?
    Do you still believe that the killer spouse is in heaven with your child or does it make you think otherwise


    The reason I bring this up is that many believers are swayed by personal emotions regarding victim/perpetrator when a loved one is involved
    Loopholes in scripture can be found to justify nearly anything

  9. #28
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    What about a believer who struggles with same sex attraction and later 'marries' his same sex partner.....are they saved if they die in a car accident before repenting
    If they are still truly saved and redeemed may as well let them become pastors and leaders in churches
    I think the murderer shipwrecked her faith in the premeditated act. Not necessarily her mental assent to a doctrine but her heart relation to Jesus. Which means she was no longer saved.

    I think the KKK people probably were never saved to begin with but living in murder over a duration of time pretty much excludes the possibility of continuing in heart faith.

    The same sex people. I don't think their sin is worse than habitually visiting prostitutes. Not necessarily worse than adultery. This is more of a grey zone. With some people, the decision to live in a sin can amount to a parallell decision to abandon Jesus. Not necessarily mental assent as their heart may be deceiving them. Sin produces death when it has matured so continuing in sin naturally has that effect over time.

    I believe this hinges on heart faith and how peoples actions affect that, including when their beliefs are in the process of being perverted. It is tempting to want a list of acts to judge peoples salvation by rather than heart faith since we can observe their actions and not their hearts but then we shouldn't be so concerned with being able to judge every individual, rather we should be concerned with warning them about where their path leads or possibly already has led. God is quite able to sort them out correctly, we don't have to worry about that.

    Hypothetically, if those same sex people are still saved because they still have heart faith then that doesn't mean that they should be allowed to minister, that isn't just a matter of who is saved and who is not.

  10. #29
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    Cardinal TT has posted some good questions in this thread. I don't understand why people get upset by questions. Getting upset by the answers to the questions is different.

  11. #30
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    The thing about science trying to reduce all actions and decisions to chemical reactions in the brain that simply follow physical laws. It is basically a matter of denying free will and therefore actual responsibility for one's actions since one consequently couldn't have done otherwise. There is no longer any justification for punishment and everything becomes a matter of training the perpetrator to do otherwise or possibly of shielding society from him by way of incarceration.

    The same spirit of annulling responsibility for actions affects believers as well. They seek to find excuses for peoples behavior and especially when it comes to family and friends. Loyalty often runs deeper than a sense of justice does. We should place reverence for God as a just judge before our own emotionally driven assessments. Some people here need to humble themselves before God and leave the judgment to him and I'm not necessarily referring to those who have actually participated in this thread.

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