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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
fuego
Example on how forgive can mean different things and relating it to the subject at hand?
One should forgive as in restore anyone who genuinely repents. But we cant do that with an unrepentant killer for instance.
One should forgive as in give up bitterness etc everyone, whether they repented or not. One can do that towards even an unrepentant killer. That releases us from them, inside of us.
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Originally Posted by
Colonel
One should forgive as in restore anyone who genuinely repents. But we cant do that with an unrepentant killer for instance.
One should forgive as in give up bitterness etc everyone, whether they repented or not. One can do that towards even an unrepentant killer. That releases us from them, inside of us.
The second one is the important one regardless if they repent or not. To me the OP implies we don't have to do that, which contradicts other scriptures.
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
fuego
The second one is the important one regardless if they repent or not. To me the OP implies we don't have to do that, which contradicts other scriptures.
I couldn't agree more. That has often been a point I've contended through the years here.
Forgiving everyone, including unrepentant killers, at that level, releases them from our vigilante sense of justice and to where we leave them to God's justice. And the justice of society, where that is applicable. Doesnt mean we shouldnt report people to the authorities or do something to make things right, but it takes the vigilante who thrives on bitterness and resentment out of the picture.
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Senior Member
I don't understand this discussion at all. Who in their right mind would want to harbour unforgiveness? We know the mind of Christ, right? He forgave us freely our sins even before we had the chance to ask him to. We forgive because He forgave us. Because of Christ in us.
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
peace
I don't understand this discussion at all. Who in their right mind would want to harbour unforgiveness? We know the mind of Christ, right? He forgave us freely our sins even before we had the chance to ask him to. We forgive because He forgave us. Because of Christ in us.
I *think* that forgiveness is not the issue here. We tend to use the term as a blanket. But it has two different meanings ... "restoration" and "release". The former is what should come with genuine repentance; the latter simply says "OK God, not my problem, that person is all yours."
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Senior Member
To say "Okay that is not my problem" is unchristian and not biblical. Of course it is your problem. We are members of God's family and your problem is my problem. I may not be able to deal with it (the problem) on a first hand basis like you can but I can at least forgive and show love and caring through prayer and concern.
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
KaySharpe
I *think* that forgiveness is not the issue here. We tend to use the term as a blanket. But it has two different meanings ... "restoration" and "release". The former is what should come with genuine repentance; the latter simply says "OK God, not my problem, that person is all yours."
Then I'm with you. I think we all have met people who have done something terrible and they act as if it is YOUR problem and not theirs. Some kind of "You have to forgive me, so there"-attitude. But when I see no brokenness, repentance or change in lifestyle I feel free to stay away from that person. It is not that we don't forgive, but I don't trust them. Trust must be earned.
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Senior Member
Of course forgiveness is based on attitude. Not necessarily repentance but an attitude that tells me the person wants to do right and is seeking. We do not have to wait until the person repents. If they are seeking and reaching out to find God then that is enough. God forgave us all on Calvary. Even while we were yet sinners. He said about his executioners, "Father forgive them....".
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Senior Member
I don't think it is acceptable to release a sinner from the consequences of sin outside of God's structure of repentance and rebirth. It isn't appropriate for a human being to usurp God's judgment. Therefore, I cannot pretend the sin has not happened or that I have the right to remove the sinner from God's judgment. That would be unloving of both God and the sinner. When confronting sin, it isn't my duty to render judgment, conviction or punishment. Those are in God's hands. While the sin goes unrepented the sinner is in mortal danger and if possible, I should do what I can to rescue the sinner by declaring righteousness and if possible acting to prevent the continuation of the sin.
I suspect the commandment here is divided into two separate commandments. One is meant for the community and the other for individuals. We as individuals must not take it upon ourselves to revenge the sin but as a community we must deal with the sin and perhaps harshly.
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Super Moderator
I'm agreeing with Tom here.
And, to add in, while we are commanded to forgive, part of that is doing what's best for that person. So, as community, if the person is doing harm to others, that's not best for anyone.. themselves or the community, so we stop them by putting them where they can't harm anyone anymore.
Forgiveness benefits both parties.. IF the offending one comes to see they've done wrong and wants it, they are broken and sorry.. it's a good thing to give it..
but, even if they don't, it's a good thing for the one giving it because it releases them from any potential bitterness that could take root.
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