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Senior Member
Being mad vs. not forgiving
Is there a symbiotic relationship between the two, or are they/can be separate?
Can someone truly forgive and still be mad at a person?
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Senior Member
One can forgive someone in one's heart and still wish for justice to be done, hypothetically including the death penalty. Forgiveness implies that one releases the person from own vindictiveness and to a higher justice, ultimately to God's justice if the earthly form fails. Placing things in God's hands knowing that he will judge justly in the end makes it easier to forgive. There is never, I repeat NEVER a reason not to forgive someone at this level. There is forgiveness beyond this level but it may involve a deeper process of restoration, in the forgiver's own emotions or relationally between the two. This part isnt automatic but should be pursued, in the Lords time, when that is possible.
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Super Moderator
Interesting question FO!
I think it's possible for anger to wane. Actually it MUST to be able to move to forgiveness.
Can we still be angry and forgiving at the same time.. I think it's a vacillation.. or can be.
Personal experience.
D didn't do what he needed to. He ignored my pleas to go to the dr. He kept hiding the severity of the situation from me until we nearly had thermonuclear war over it.
He had to have surgery, near lost his arm (and that's still a distinct possiblity down the line) they had to do a HUGE skin graft to cover the area (I think it was about 18x22 INCHES)
So, while I was FLAMING mad at him, I was still wrenched because of what he had to go through. I spent a good amount of time in tears going back and forth. Yes, I was SUPER pissed off.. and yes, I loved and forgave him. I reached the point I told him I could say he was an idiot, but he couldn't any more. I knew he needed to move away from that.
Now, would this happen with a stranger.. not sure, but I don't think so.
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Resident Chocolate Monster
That's a tough one. I have forgiven people, and yet I still GET mad at them in new situations. I think, like Colonel said, that God is sometimes working through our very messy clay vessel to create something beautiful. That, in God's perfection of forgiveness, we won't feel anger, but in our own broken way, we still can. I do think that when God has brought us through something, and we've forgiven, and finally worked through all of our own emotions, then we won't feel any anger.
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
Femme*
Interesting question FO!
I think it's possible for anger to wane. Actually it MUST to be able to move to forgiveness.
Can we still be angry and forgiving at the same time.. I think it's a vacillation.. or can be.
Personal experience.
D didn't do what he needed to. He ignored my pleas to go to the dr. He kept hiding the severity of the situation from me until we nearly had thermonuclear war over it.
He had to have surgery, near lost his arm (and that's still a distinct possiblity down the line) they had to do a HUGE skin graft to cover the area (I think it was about 18x22 INCHES)
So, while I was FLAMING mad at him, I was still wrenched because of what he had to go through. I spent a good amount of time in tears going back and forth. Yes, I was SUPER pissed off.. and yes, I loved and forgave him. I reached the point I told him I could say he was an idiot, but he couldn't any more. I knew he needed to move away from that.
Now, would this happen with a stranger.. not sure, but I don't think so.
Oh Femme...{{hug}} so sorry you and D are going thru this crud... I can imagine you getting frustrated, but he's very fortunate to have you in his corner.
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
Lista
That's a tough one. I have forgiven people, and yet I still GET mad at them in new situations. I think, like Colonel said, that God is sometimes working through our very messy clay vessel to create something beautiful. That, in God's perfection of forgiveness, we won't feel anger, but in our own broken way, we still can. I do think that when God has brought us through something, and we've forgiven, and finally worked through all of our own emotions, then we won't feel any anger.
You know, I have had running conversations in my head of things I would say to certain folk (or would like to say)...I mean really bad stuff with cuss words but am restrained by the Holy Spirit... Thank God..
Last edited by FaithfulOne; 01-18-2016 at 01:05 AM.
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Administrator
Originally Posted by
FaithfulOne
Is there a symbiotic relationship between the two, or are they/can be separate?
Can someone truly forgive and still be mad at a person?
Not ultimately I don't think. Sometimes we have to forgive 'by faith', meaning we make the decision to forgive by faith, then by faith act, speak, think in ways on purpose that contradict offense (walk by faith). In other words we quit being led by those feelings and obey the Word. Eventually that will remove the offense from our heart, and the root being dead, the fruit will die, i.e., the feelings.
To make a long story short and not go into any real detail, I have a friend that was highly offended by a couple of people. Had no intention of forgiving them. One day the Spirit basically told him that you're not going to go any further in me until you do. He was honest and said he didn't want to. The Lord said 'would you be willing to be willing'? And he said yes, but I really don't want to. The Lord said to him, all I want you to do is every time you think of them, just ask me to bless them. Well he was thinking about them all the time because he was offended by them. But he obeyed by faith, and eventually his feelings began to change. They changed so much that today those two people are two of his best friends. And as he began to obey God, He was able to show him his part in the matter. He went from seeing those two as being totally wrong to the Lord being able to show him that his part in the matter was actually worse than theirs. That's how true forgiveness will change a person. We have to give God the faith He needs to change our heart. When the heart changes the feelings follow.
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Super Moderator
I've experienced that sort of thing.. not in forgiveness, but in great dislike.
I reached the point with a few people I've had to ask God to love them through me because I, for sure, didn't love them and didn't want to.
I found, after a while, my extreme dislike softened.. It's difficult to really not like someone you're praying for.
(there's still one person -- I call him "satan" because.. well, he is, or at least spawn)
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
Femme*
(there's still one person -- I call him "satan" because.. well, he is, or at least spawn)
Don't mess with Femme
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
fuego
Not ultimately I don't think. Sometimes we have to forgive 'by faith', meaning we make the decision to forgive by faith, then by faith act, speak, think in ways on purpose that contradict offense (walk by faith). In other words we quit being led by those feelings and obey the Word. Eventually that will remove the offense from our heart, and the root being dead, the fruit will die, i.e., the feelings.
To make a long story short and not go into any real detail, I have a friend that was highly offended by a couple of people. Had no intention of forgiving them. One day the Spirit basically told him that you're not going to go any further in me until you do. He was honest and said he didn't want to. The Lord said 'would you be willing to be willing'? And he said yes, but I really don't want to. The Lord said to him, all I want you to do is every time you think of them, just ask me to bless them. Well he was thinking about them all the time because he was offended by them. But he obeyed by faith, and eventually his feelings began to change. They changed so much that today those two people are two of his best friends. And as he began to obey God, He was able to show him his part in the matter. He went from seeing those two as being totally wrong to the Lord being able to show him that his part in the matter was actually worse than theirs. That's how true forgiveness will change a person. We have to give God the faith He needs to change our heart. When the heart changes the feelings follow.
Jesus is our example :
Luke 23:33 And when they had come to the place called Calvary, there they crucified Him, and the criminals, one on the right hand and the other on the left.
34 Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.”
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