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Thread: What do you think about choice? Emotionally?

  1. #21
    Thank you, that was the sort of answer I was looking for.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    many Christian parents are backflipping on their values to same sex marriage or other areas when they find out their kids have embraced some sin
    I know, I was going to add that comment myself. It's sad.

  3. #23
    TT, you can make any hypothetical.. gazillions of them, and it doesn't mean anything other than taking a mind walk.

    How do YOU know you're not going to do any of what you suggested? You don't, but I'm willing to bet you don't think about it because you can't conceive it.

    I, personally, concentrate on what I know, not what I can surmise, or guess at, or make up as I go along. I don't dwell on "what if" because it's futile and not very helpful. (unless we're doing a mind walk.. then it's all great fun.)

    I KNOW there is One True and Living God. I KNOW He's made promises. Since His is sovereign of the universe, I will believe Him and not rely on my emotion of the moment (apologies Oz.. I know that was your main focus) Emotions and "feelings" can be misleading and are not a reliable source of info about how God operates. The Bible, on the other hand, is.

    Since I trust what God says, and He says we are chosen before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4), I believe Him. I don't have to stress that I'm going to do something bad enough to lose my place in His family. It's not ME who does/did anything, but Jesus in my place.

    Now, IF it's a *real thing, then my desires will be to conform to what God has for me. I'll want to mature in Him, my wants will be more what He wants. If it's not a *real thing then I'll just go on my merry way with no more than a superficial veneer of "Christianity" if even that.

    God knows our hearts.

    Those who are not God's own won't have those desires. They couldn't care less and probably never think, much less worry, about what God even tells us to do/not to do.

    I'm always amused when I see the accusation of "man made" thrown out against some doctrinal positions, when, in fact, the "free will/Arminian" position is the very definition of "man made." It's all up to you.. You control your destiny.


    Oz, the premise that while people are insisting on they're having a say in their future and where they'll spend eternity, but refusing that same courtesy to God is what made me begin to examine the doctrinal position I'd grown up in. I began to see that we, God's created human beings, get a better deal than the sovereign of the universe.

    Then, when I started seeing how God very definitely makes choices (Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jonah, Mary, Saul/Paul, etc, etc) I knew I needed to reevaluate.


    TT, regarding family.. since we know God doesn't have any grandchildren, none of us is guaranteed that our dearest will be with us in heaven. My only consolation in this is that He promises to wipe away every tear. And I, again, go back to Him not being obligated to save any. When I see those in my family who are part of His, I'm thankful, and I continually pray for those who are not to have their eyes and ears opened so they can believe Him.


    So, Oz, how does this all "make me feel?" Thankful that God keeps His promises. Overwhelmed that I am His. Broken because I know it was my sin that caused His pain, and every time I sin, I'm putting Him on that cross again. Exhilarated because i know He didn't stay dead, and that I know He is coming back for us.

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  5. #24
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    That is where you are mistaken, Femme. We can very well conceive of departing from the faith again. All it takes is making and continuing to make the wrong choices. Having talked to a former very successful street minister turned blasphemer - for a few years, I am very much aware of the possibility.

  6. #25
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Femme* View Post
    TT, you can make any hypothetical.. gazillions of them, and it doesn’t mean anything other than taking a mind walk.

    How do YOU know you're not going to do any of what you suggested? You don't, but I’m willing to bet you don’t think about it because you can't conceive it.

    Actually Femme I have considered the possibility of ...'what if I did leave the faith'.....even though its not pleasant to contemplate it can be a good thing if we approach it from a positive angle and say 'I will do my part that God requires of all believers'. Of course if someone over-thinks then it can produce fear and other negatives

    i have even considered ...what if the Mormons or JW's are right and I am wrong.....Paul says to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling

    I admit I asked tough questions but that is the way I process spiritual things as I ask tough questions of myself and my walk with God


    Also you seem to forget that FunOZ has rejoined the forum and is challenging us with his questions (btw I am glad he has rejoined) but if he is going to ask those questions then he has to expect some tough responses.....I quite sure FunOz can handle it as he has shown

    Because I was not saved under reformed theology when FunOz asks questions I automatically think ...ok but what about this scenario.
    With due respect that is what I have also seen reformed believers say when confronted with free-will theology

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  8. #26
    Senior Member Colonel's Avatar
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    It's a question the Bible commands us to take into consideration :

    Romans 11:20 They were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble.
    21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
    22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

    The flesh takes no heed of miracles, revelations, the fullness of the Spirit. If it is allowed to gain power sufficiently over time, then a departure from the faith, whether externally or only internally, is inevitable.

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  10. #27
    Senior Member Cardinal TT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel View Post
    It's a question the Bible commands us to take into consideration :

    Romans 11:20 They were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble.
    .

    Thats a good example of God making it clear to stay sober minded

  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal TT View Post
    Thats a good example of God making it clear to stay sober minded
    There are many passages in the Bible that one could wish had been clearer so that there would be less grounds for arguing but that is not one of them. It is ridiculously clear. The reason why is not hard to guess - osas is an enticing doctrine, therefore the need to pull no punches.

  12. #29
    I wholly apologize if you saw arrogance in my post. I promise, not intentioned. If anything I am, daily, reminded how humbling the gospel is.

    I have to admit that I have never, ever (even when I was free will/arminian) contemplated that I would leave my beliefs. ever.

    Instead of "what if they're right" it's more "I can understand how they think we're nuts." (goes back to the blinded and deaf thing)

    So, I can't relate to that experience at all.

    It must be frightening.

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  14. #30
    What do you think about choice? Emotionally?

    Isn't there something OFFabout this question?

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