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Senior Member
I trust people will comprehend what I am trying to say. I don't believe that Femme or FunfromOz will renounce Christ nor will their loved ones.
I am using a hypothetical to address the OP that having confidence in salvation because you are chosen is thin ice.
It does seem by the OP that chosen is more important than faith....sorry Oz if that's not the case
I can measure faith as it is based on Jesus Christ and the scriptures
How do you measure being chosen? Didn't everyone think Judas and Demas were chosen but look how the ended up.
I have no doubt FunfromOz Is saved and has real faith towards Christ which is the key but why concentrate on being chosen as if that is Our standard when no one knows 100% they are chosen until they get to heaven.
I hope that makes sense
IF a believers says ..how do I really know I am saved..how do we answer.
Do we say it's because you are chosen or it's because you have a living heart faith towards Christ
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Senior Member
If you are still confused by my posts then try this
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Banned
Even though this is off topic and I don't "have to" ....
Originally Posted by
Cardinal TT
So now you have to answer my questions.
What if God has always known your loved ones were never chosen but they end up like Demas and will renounce him before they die.
Would you find it acceptable that God has chosen them as vessels of destruction and doomed to hell forever
What if God has always known that your loved ones would never choose Him? (and He does)
Would you find it acceptable that your loved ones would choose to be doomed to hell forever?
It doesn't matter what our theology TT we always are (or should be) aware that some people around us including some we love are going to go to hell. We have no option but to accept that.
Originally Posted by
Cardinal TT
The reason I make this very personal because we believers talk about unsaved like numbers and forget they are real human beings with families, feelings and emotions.
So if we believe that some are chosen to burn forever will reformists accept it when they see their grandchildren burning in hell as God has destined it that way
Yes they are human beings with families, feelings and emotions and what's more we are responsible for some of them. We choose to have kids. Because of that we have grand-kids. And hopefully great-grand-kids etc. If any go to hell (and chances are some will) the thing is they wouldn't exist except for me, they would not exist to be able to be in hell except for me. But God commanded us to be fruitful so what could I do?
BTW I see no evidence in scripture that Demas renounced God.
Last edited by FunFromOz; 01-16-2016 at 03:43 AM.
Reason: added the BTW
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Banned
Originally Posted by
Cardinal TT
Also are you asking those questions from a position of safety believing that you and your loved ones are chosen therefore you have nothing to fear
No, I'm asking wondering how people feel about the idea that God might be entitled to a choise in what happens to the people he choose to create.
Originally Posted by
Cardinal TT
Is it not possible that you will renounce Christ before you die and what assurance do you have that you are chosen and safe from hell
No and my assurance is in Christ; I'm born again; I'm a son of God; I'm an heir; I'm adopted; I'm part of the bride of Christ; I have the Holy Spirit as a down payment.
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Banned
Originally Posted by
Cardinal TT
My concern is that you don't use faith in Christ as the standard to judge oneself.
But I do.
Originally Posted by
Cardinal TT
I find the thought of being chosen not very satisfying and very very very subjective whereas faith is a substance that I can rely on as it is centred on Christ and produces fruit
And because I was chosen (as were you) I was given faith (as were you). My salvation is of God not me so I can be confident in it, I don't have to doubt and think "I" might fall away because Christ has said He will never leave or forsake me.
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Banned
Originally Posted by
Cardinal TT
It does seem by the OP that chosen is more important than faith....sorry Oz if that's not the case
No it's not the case, it's nothing to do with that.
It's about how people feel about an idea.
God either does or does not get a choice in who goes to heaven. I'm asking people how do they feel about the idea of God actually getting to make that choice?
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Senior Member
FunOz
Thanks for answering and I commend you for being sincere and honest
They were tough questions I asked but as you would be aware many Christian parents are backflipping on their values to same sex marriage or other areas when they find out their kids have embraced some sin
Am glad to see your faith towards God is strong and won't change regardless if others change.
My apologies for putting you in this position but appreciate your responses
I did misread how you viewed chosen but that was my fault
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
FunFromOz
No it's not the case, it's nothing to do with that.
It's about how people feel about an idea.
God either does or does not get a choice in who goes to heaven. I'm asking people how do they feel about the idea of God actually getting to make that choice?
The Bible says that God shows no favoritism which excludes that he sends Anne to heaven because she is Anne and Roger to hell because he is Roger. It also defines favoritism as a sin, so that is how I feel about that, dont make God a sinner.
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Banned
Originally Posted by
Colonel
The Bible says that God shows no favoritism which excludes that he sends Anne to heaven because she is Anne and Roger to hell because he is Roger. It also defines favoritism as a sin, so that is how I feel about that, dont make God a sinner.
Thanks Colonel, though that seems like a theological answer is it not?
I'm not looking to see if you think the idea's right or wrong, Biblical or non-Biblical but what emotion it causes you to feel.
If you could describe the "idea" in one word, an emotive word, but not saying it's right or wrong etc is there a word you would use?
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Senior Member
I loathe applied favoritism ?
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